HELP!!!

#1 Rule - Play Nice PLEASE!!
#2 Rule - This is not a forum for sales or wanted....please keep it to just general doll discussion.
12_11_11 Liddy
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by 12_11_11 Liddy »

I had to do a repair once on a friends Nadia when her neck ripped practically wide open completely out the blue!

I would have your baby repaired with sil-proxy and then add arm and neck rings to support the area against the pressure of the cable ties.

Sadly for Nadia the silicone had become so brittle that I couldn't add a neck ring as it seemed to just shave the base of her head like a block of Parmesan cheese :shock:
Judith
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by Judith »

I did contact Andrea through her email. She then refered me to Michelle Fegan, who did send me back to Andrea. :dunno: :banghead:
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Elisabettas Babies
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by Elisabettas Babies »

Judith wrote:I did contact Andrea through her email. She then refered me to Michelle Fegan, who did send me back to Andrea. :dunno: :banghead:
Who poured the doll? Andrea Arcello or Michelle Fagan?
Judith
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by Judith »

Michelle Fagan poured her. She said, she only poured them, she doesn´t repair them.

Edit: Michelle now offered to repair her for me.
AnneXmedici
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by AnneXmedici »

I am bumping this. I know what is meant by disintegrating like Parmesan cheese. It is exactly what my friends Grumpy did. He literally crumbled. Tin based silicones. As I understand Tin based silicone does not have a long shelf life no matter how carefully they are handled. The flaw lays in the material itself, so whether it is washed, bathed, powdered etc does not influence the process of it falling apart (it is like the material itself changes: becomes harder, brittler, drier. If you take a small piece and rub between your fingers it will crumble like a bisquit does and you do not have to rub hard either).

I am so sorry. I think it is time to stop protecting. It does not matter how kind and sweet an artist is. To be told that it is not the problem of the seller, artist, pourer etc. is not a nice thing to do to anybody. It is firstly the sellers responsibility. If the product is faulty or bad then the seller/artist needs to take theis up with the pourer. so by the end of the day: is an artist nice just because she is pleasant or is it nicer to be kind after the sale took place. For me there is a difference....
Last edited by AnneXmedici on Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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dana
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by dana »

Oh WOW! I just got referred to this post from another post and I wanted to add the link to the other post to show a pattern of behavior.
http://doll-fan.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=345702

I thought I was going crazy when my Nadia fell apart and then when I couldn't repaint her???? what was up with that? I contacted a few ladies on here that I looked up to as silicone painters to find out what I was doing wrong but no one could tell me... Finally someone informed me it was TIN silicone and the quality was poor plus my platinum paints wouldn't work.. In the end it didn't matter if i could paint it or not because as I was washing it with DAWN DISH SOAP the ear came off then the fingers...a chunk of the lip yes a chunk of the lip.... No ones was willing to speak up against Andrea in fear of the backlash and after reading some of the backlash I understood... First I sent Andrea a PM on Doll Fan she replied by telling me Michelle Fan poured the doll so I should contact her. I emailed Michelle and ask about a replacement. I told her I would pay for the silicone but I would like mine poured in Platinum because Andrea said they were Platinum and they are not.. I never got a reply from Michelle...maybe she didn't see my email who knows but I was so frustrated and I never thought anyone would believe that these pieces just came off when i was washing it because I couldn't believe it myself. In the end I just tossed the kit in the garbage...What else could I do? the toes fingers, ears and lips coming off and it wont hold paint ... In my opinion Andrea had to know Michelle poured in Tin.. Andrea is well seasoned in the silicone business she ask questions you know she does..and why would Michelle lie and tell her it was tin? To me that didnt add up......BUT please note that last sentence came from my thought process of "if the DOTs don't connect something is wrong" ..it did not come from me having factual knowledge of the transactions between Michelle and Andrea.. It would be nice Michelle and Andrea could come on here and clear this up ... We are a big customer base for them so it would be nice to have them help us understand better..plus that would nip the discussion and guessing in the bud...
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12_11_11 Liddy
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by 12_11_11 Liddy »

AnneXmedici wrote:I am bumping this. I know what is meant by disintegrating like Parmesan cheese. It is exactly what my friends Grumpy did. He literally crumbled..
:cry:

Unfortunately I know several ladies who have babies they have either thrown in the bin, resold for practically nothing loosing hundreds of $$, babies sat in cribs deteriorating without being remotely handled or moved at all, or worse, babies they love, laying in boxes until they can bring themselves to throw them away.

I have no reason personally to be upset with any artists mentioned, but I was totally gutted for my friend whose Nadia I tried in vein to rescue, she didn't have a lot to spend and just adored that dolly, then she literally fell apart, her pinky fell off, wrists split, neck ripped open and ear tops came off.

I am not any kind of silicone dictionary, but have seen and held silicones by pretty much every known sili artist from being in the right place and the coincidentally right time.

I have some scrap silicone in my study I had a play about with (I occasionally reborn just to check I'm still as bad at painting as ever lol), I can literally pull the finger tip and the base of the (scrap) arm until I have no strength left and it pings right back, no rips, tears or strain, my scrap silicone is Claire Taylor's.

Just my useless two cents worth xx
AnneXmedici
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by AnneXmedici »

12_11_11 Liddy wrote:
AnneXmedici wrote:I am bumping this. I know what is meant by disintegrating like Parmesan cheese. It is exactly what my friends Grumpy did. He literally crumbled..
:cry:

Unfortunately I know several ladies who have babies they have either thrown in the bin, resold for practically nothing loosing hundreds of $$, babies sat in cribs deteriorating without being remotely handled or moved at all, or worse, babies they love, laying in boxes until they can bring themselves to throw them away.

I have no reason personally to be upset with any artists mentioned, but I was totally gutted for my friend whose Nadia I tried in vein to rescue, she didn't have a lot to spend and just adored that dolly, then she literally fell apart, her pinky fell off, wrists split, neck ripped open and ear tops came off.

I am not any kind of silicone dictionary, but have seen and held silicones by pretty much every known sili artist from being in the right place and the coincidentally right time.

I have some scrap silicone in my study I had a play about with (I occasionally reborn just to check I'm still as bad at painting as ever lol), I can literally pull the finger tip and the base of the (scrap) arm until I have no strength left and it pings right back, no rips, tears or strain, my scrap silicone is Claire Taylor's.

Just my useless two cents worth xx
Yes Liddy: the silicone from Dragonskin I know to be rubbery. The tin one becomes a totally different matter after a few years. It does not feel or react like silicone anymore. It is like a hard dry bit of cheese or a dry soft bisquit.
I have left out Ecoflex as I do not know the reaction of this. But I do believe it to be platinum (Dragonskin) thus should resct the way the harder Dragonskin reacts.

I can understand the artist creators innocense of the very early artist silicones. Little was known about the longivity. These days there is NO excuse not to divulge what silicone is used. And further if an artists uses addetives to the mix to cheapen the edition.
Most of the ladies here I know as my doll buddies. We will likely never meet in RL as the distance is too large. The same goes for the artists. I, as a customer, needs foremost a professional artist. Not to be my friend, but to sell me a GOOD product. It is time to stop being so nice and demand full accountability and full disclosure.

I am sticking my neck out here: but...I know there are those artists that the seasoned collectors stay away from no matter how wonderful the sculpts are. Many of us on the forums knows this and we know who. But we are afraid to speak because it can be taken as gossip or hearsay. Sometimes it truly is all that too. but sometimes also hte auslity of silicone and workmanship is why.

News travel per PM and only filters down to the forum once the amounts of dissatisfied customers are getting big: "the cup runneth over"
And that is sad. Because with lack of honest and blunt feedback how else can it be conveyed to the artists that this is not OK? and sometimes sculptors unwittingly becomes a victim too because of the lack of openess: All because we are afraid of rocking the boat or ruin the nice cozy atmosphere on the forum.

I am really sorry, Liddy. It should not be this way: friendship and buisniss should be kept seperate. And to be a nice person does not always mean that the nice person is a good buisniss person.
Create A Baby~Tanya
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by Create A Baby~Tanya »

Omg no :(
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HushabyeMargie
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by HushabyeMargie »

I really hesitate posting, especially considering the age of this thread, but I don't want to see an artist bashing start.

I remember reading an article written by a chemist. It was several years ago and I didn't save the article but, for what it's worth: There is very little difference in quality or durability between tin and platinum silicone. Platinum silicone will last for 100 years...tin maybe 99. The reason most artists do not use tin is that it is toxic if ingested. The quality of the silicone, tin or platinum, is dependent on a) the quality of the base materials and b) the skill and experience of the pourer.

You ladies who are having issues with expensive silicone dolls should go to the artist. Most artists will do the repairs free or...if the doll was not purchased from the artist...for a nominal fee.
Blessings!
Margie
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lifesabeachbabyKim
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by lifesabeachbabyKim »

Actually Margie I respectfully disagree. According to Smooth-On, platinum cure lasts upwards of 45 years and doesn't suffer the "evaporation and breakdown" that tin cure silicone does. Tin cure can and will crumble after a few years of even the gentlest handling or no handling at all. it dries out and falls apart. Plain and simple. Just saying. :)
Create A Baby~Tanya
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by Create A Baby~Tanya »

I have contacted the artist who claims no other collectors have informed her of issues with their Summers only to come on here and Facebook and I'm told by 8 different Summer mommies that there are issues and ALL of them contacted Andrea right away with the issues when found.
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by inga »

Ginny W wrote::shock: Wow now I know why I do not pay 100's of dollars for silicone dolls that tear apart...I would be mad.. give me my soft vinyl reborns any day.. :mrgreen:
Strange to me how that happened :dunno: I have two full body baby girls by Michelle Fagan ,and they are amazing, silicone is soft flexible and very strong !!!And I "play" with my babies, I feed them,change, bathe :dance:
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Olivia full body silicone baby girl made by Claire Taylor and my little boy Calum made by Linda Moore :baby: :baby: :heart:
Renaissance Babies Tracey
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by Renaissance Babies Tracey »

lifesabeachbabyKim wrote:Actually Margie I respectfully disagree. According to Smooth-On, platinum cure lasts upwards of 45 years and doesn't suffer the "evaporation and breakdown" that tin cure silicone does. Tin cure can and will crumble after a few years of even the gentlest handling or no handling at all. it dries out and falls apart. Plain and simple. Just saying. :)

Yes, this is correct Kim.

Tin cure was only ever really intended for mould making for resin pouring and such. It was never intended for pouring, that's what platinum cure is for. Tin cure is cheaper, though.

Inge, your full bodied Fagan baby is poured in platinum cure.
AnneXmedici
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by AnneXmedici »

In effect there are three main types of silicone, as I understand: dragonskin, tin based and the newst soft silicones: Ecoflex (and medical grade).
To my knowledge all the "soft" silicones are poured in Exoflex. (Correct me, please, if I am wrong).

I have seen, like I already said, my friends older sculpt "Grumpy" (I am not sure who poured him) literally fall apart: his head basically separated from the neck, his lip and his ear came off in my hands when I examined him to see if I could repair him for her. When. i ran my hand flat against the break, the silicone would have crumbs falling off and land on my worktable. I have never seen anything like it. It did not behave like the Dragonskin does. It did not even feel like silicone anymore but like dried out modelene(plastecine).

I do respect that little was known about the long term life of silicone in the early days, but today..... Then again: the artists who poured in this type of silicone seem to have switched to Ecoflex, so perhaps it will also be the end of this problem.
And also so much more is known today and we also have many more artists who works in silicone and can iron out and share problems and successes.

I would have liked to see the artists who did pour in tin, be upfront, and come to the collectors and say: honestly we did not know as it was still an early artform. It would have made my respect be restored.
terrimeyers
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by terrimeyers »

HushabyeMargie wrote:I really hesitate posting, especially considering the age of this thread, but I don't want to see an artist bashing start.

I remember reading an article written by a chemist. It was several years ago and I didn't save the article but, for what it's worth: There is very little difference in quality or durability between tin and platinum silicone. Platinum silicone will last for 100 years...tin maybe 99. The reason most artists do not use tin is that it is toxic if ingested. The quality of the silicone, tin or platinum, is dependent on a) the quality of the base materials and b) the skill and experience of the pourer.

You ladies who are having issues with expensive silicone dolls should go to the artist. Most artists will do the repairs free or...if the doll was not purchased from the artist...for a nominal fee.
As a molder and caster who works with both platnium and tin, I'd have to disagree. I use tin only for my resin molds as it holds up better againsed the harsh resin chemical process. Tin silicone dry rots as the oils that keep it plyable leach out over time. 2-3 years is the average tin cure life expectancy for my molds kept in a controlled environment. ( they usually wear out detail before then though)
Adding thinners and "skin texturing" mediums also reduces the integrity and life expectancy of the silicone. My platnium silicone molds remain as stretchy and plyable as the day they were poured.
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by tuckerk »

I feel so bad for you ladies with the babies who are falling apart, hope something can be done............This is very interesting to know about the different silicones...................Hugs, Kathy
lifesabeachbabyKim
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by lifesabeachbabyKim »

I'm not sure anything can be done about a piece in tin cure once it starts to fall apart like that but at least I hope Michelle will pour another for all of you(in platinum this time) that have started having these horrible issues with your dolls. Especially since Andrea seems to not want to help any of you.
Barby
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by Barby »

Create A Baby~Tanya wrote:I have contacted the artist who claims no other collectors have informed her of issues with their Summers only to come on here and Facebook and I'm told by 8 different Summer mommies that there are issues and ALL of them contacted Andrea right away with the issues when found.

My Summer's (I had been the only owner) head tore and I had never even played with/changed her. I contacted Andrea and she offered to fix her. I had to pay shipping both ways. :roll:
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KrisC
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Re: HELP!!!

Post by KrisC »

Judith,
We are finding a lot of Summers having this same problem. You are like the 9th or 10... in my repair discoveries, I have found the ones that are breaking down are poured in tin.
Unfortunately, I dont think there is much Andrea has done or says she can do.
I am sorry... in my studies and trials with tin, I have learned that tin just continues to break down...

I am sorry :cry:
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