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#2 Rule - This is not a forum for sales or wanted....please keep it to just general doll discussion.
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tracid
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Post by tracid »

I understand the viewpoint in wanting this post to remain. My views on the situation have not changed & I'm not trying to hide them. Therefore I am reposting.
I was very upset & disappointed to see Melissa George market her line of powders. Although powders have been around for eons, she had learned about them from Sue-ellen Taormina on her Liveffects facebook group. She sent Sue-ellen her own products (free of charge) to test the powders on & report back with her findings, She was aware that Sue-ellen was looking into marketing her own brand of powders. Yes, I know Sue-ellen does not hold the corner on the powder market. Nothing illegal was done. I think the fact that she had Sue-ellen do the ground work for her without giving any credit is immoral if not unethical.
That is my opinion. I'm not hiding it and I don't think I'm jumping on the bandwagon without having all my facts.
If I've offended anyone I will apologize. If my request to delete the thread was misunderstood I will apologize for that too.
Last edited by tracid on Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.
misteeIrene
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Re: Baby FX Powders

Post by misteeIrene »

I love MG paints and she has been amazing with helping me work out the kinks I was having. I do know that Sue was the one who came up with the powder method so it's sad that she is so hurt over this. She has been amazing in her FB group teaching and helping everyone for free.
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MissyDoll
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Re: Baby FX Powders

Post by MissyDoll »

The copying is getting out of hand. :(
I saw on Facebook where one artist is copying the Sille Skille dolls now and making toddler kits.
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Kimberly Dawn
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Re: Baby FX Powders

Post by Kimberly Dawn »

I may be wrong - but didn't Carole Canale of Precious Peaches use pure pigments on her reborns long ago?

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Californiateri
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Re: Baby FX Powders

Post by Californiateri »

Kimberly Dawn wrote:I may be wrong - but didn't Carole Canale of Precious Peaches use pure pigments on her reborns long ago?

Kimberly Baggett

Carol was the first person I had heard of using pigment powders on a reborn. That was at least 8 or 9 years ago.
teri - and my sweeties

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ColorMeVinyl
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Re: Baby FX Powders

Post by ColorMeVinyl »

"The Baby FX Powders™ have been specially designed from a scratch for the sole purpose of reborn doll painting. You will not find this product or anything similar anywhere else. The available colours have been carefully selected and originally mixed by Melissa George herself. The Baby FX Powders™ are not cosmetic powders, they do not contain glittery mica powder or moisturisers and are not shiny at all. "

Sue never claimed to invent powders. She IS however, the ONLY artist teaching advanced and very wonderful techniques for FREE and in depth on her LiveEffects facebook group. The same group Melissa George has been in for many months and learned from. Sue posted back in June she was going to be releasing a LiveEffects Pallet with her specific powder techniques. Suddenly MG pops up with the above pallet today, and makes flat out FALSE claims.

Shes been learning from Sue for months. Sue has had a heart attack and watched her brother die recently. This has been a very bad time for her. Now one of her STUDENTS has undercut her. IS it legal? Sure. Is it immoral. I think so. My opinion. But ANYONE should be able to see by the top quote from her website that she is making grandiose claims that are FALSE! That is very wrong!
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Ginny W
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Re: Baby FX Powders

Post by Ginny W »

:roll: Never seen such a bunch of scammers and crooks as I have in the past few months in the reborn world. Either stealing others methods or out and out taking credit for something they didn't touch. This is really sad because this was done by a very well respected artist that didn't need to take another's ideas when she is so popular in her own right.
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Kimberly Dawn
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Re: Baby FX Powders

Post by Kimberly Dawn »

How do you know that Melissa was not influenced by other artists as well as Sue though? The idea of using pigments isn't a brand new one. I have received emails myself for years from Natural Pigments , just never used them on reborns. I do see that Sue put her intentions to market a product before Mg Dolls and and you say she was part of her group and learned from her. However, it is possible that she learned from other sources as well. There have been many of us who came up with ideas that others have used, learned from , tweaked etc...For some this is a business and in business there are usually more than one company with similar products.

I don't know if Melissa took Sue Ellen's idea and "stole it or undercut her" because the idea is not totally new or unique to Sue Ellen. She may be the only one out there teaching her technique at this time, but I feel in order to make such a damaging claim against another artist, you truly need proof that they did what you are claimining.

I truly feel for Sue and pray for her good health. I just think it is important to look at all the facts before doing damage to someone's good reputation. I hope that the 2 ladies can work this out.
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georgeanne
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Re: Baby FX Powders

Post by georgeanne »

Kimberly Dawn wrote:How do you know that Melissa was not influenced by other artists as well as Sue though? The idea of using pigments isn't a brand new one. I have received emails myself for years from Natural Pigments , just never used them on reborns. I do see that Sue put her intentions to market a product before Mg Dolls and and you say she was part of her group and learned from her. However, it is possible that she learned from other sources as well. There have been many of us who came up with ideas that others have used, learned from , tweaked etc...For some this is a business and in business there are usually more than one company with similar products.

I don't know if Melissa took Sue Ellen's idea and "stole it or undercut her" because the idea is not totally new or unique to Sue Ellen. She may be the only one out there teaching her technique at this time, but I feel in order to make such a damaging claim against another artist, you truly need proof that they did what you are claimining.

I truly feel for Sue and pray for her good health. I just think it is important to look at all the facts before doing damage to someone's good reputation. I hope that the 2 ladies can work this out.
This is DolFan Kimberly, where jumping to conclusions and trashing others is something Ladies like to do on a pretty regular basis. The truth can be shouted out loud and posted all over Hades and back and still some of the lovelies of DF will run with the rumors. Frankly it's disgusting. There, I said it.

I do feel badly for all involved. I truly do.
BRONX & COLT BORN 10/16/2015 Our Grandbabies, Forever in Our Hearts.

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jacque123
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Re: Baby FX Powders

Post by jacque123 »

What goes around will come back and bite you in the butt!
jenniferwatier
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Re: Baby FX Powders

Post by jenniferwatier »

I dont know anything about this situation and am not taking sides, but I can say powders are not a new idea with dolls, but techniques are not widely knowen.....years ago powders had a rise in popularity for some time. I used powder mineral pigments on several experimental dolls, one I still have in my stash to see how well it would stand up over time and this was about 7 years ago .New techniques im sure are developing with individuals, and with that markets to developer's do open doors to those opportunities regardless if its morally or ethically or legally blurring a line....if you give out info in this industry no matter what people will use it or market it to their advantage. Especially free info. ( Or even paid tutorials...People copy those and share. ) Everyone produces paint lines these days. ...we have many people doing their lines of air dry, and countless others marketing Genesis, it dont justify marketing someone elses techniques certinally, but if you dont want your info getting out we must stop giving it away on social media platforms, and guard our trade secrets or styles we work hard to invent.
I guess if we share our technology and techniques someone one else will eventually profit off them. Its sad, but its the reality.
Joy-n-KY
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Re: Baby FX Powders

Post by Joy-n-KY »

Californiateri wrote:
Kimberly Dawn wrote:I may be wrong - but didn't Carole Canale of Precious Peaches use pure pigments on her reborns long ago?

Kimberly Baggett

Carol was the first person I had heard of using pigment powders on a reborn. That was at least 8 or 9 years ago.

Yes, I had a LTR prototype reborn by Carol, she used pigment powders on her. That was probably six years ago, maybe longer.
Julie56
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Re: Baby FX Powders

Post by Julie56 »

georgeanne wrote:
Kimberly Dawn wrote:How do you know that Melissa was not influenced by other artists as well as Sue though? The idea of using pigments isn't a brand new one. I have received emails myself for years from Natural Pigments , just never used them on reborns. I do see that Sue put her intentions to market a product before Mg Dolls and and you say she was part of her group and learned from her. However, it is possible that she learned from other sources as well. There have been many of us who came up with ideas that others have used, learned from , tweaked etc...For some this is a business and in business there are usually more than one company with similar products.

I don't know if Melissa took Sue Ellen's idea and "stole it or undercut her" because the idea is not totally new or unique to Sue Ellen. She may be the only one out there teaching her technique at this time, but I feel in order to make such a damaging claim against another artist, you truly need proof that they did what you are claimining.

I truly feel for Sue and pray for her good health. I just think it is important to look at all the facts before doing damage to someone's good reputation. I hope that the 2 ladies can work this out.
This is DolFan Kimberly, where jumping to conclusions and trashing others is something Ladies like to do on a pretty regular basis. The truth can be shouted out loud and posted all over Hades and back and still some of the lovelies of DF will run with the rumors. Frankly it's disgusting. There, I said it.

I do feel badly for all involved. I truly do.
Totally agree, Georgeanne,
I admire both ladies in question, Sue is a wonderful and talented lady, willing to help any and every one, I also like the FX products and have allways found Melissa helpful as well ,with her knowledge and helpful tutorials, why is every thing so divided lately in the reborn world, it's some thing I dont know if I truly want to be in any more , every thing is just so public now, and some words are just so hurtful , I hope the 2 artists in question can sort it out between themselves ,
lifesabeachbabyKim
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Re: Baby FX Powders

Post by lifesabeachbabyKim »

I am a member on that group too but have never really read any thread or file or anything on there because on first glance it looked like make up for dolls??? So I have no clue what powders these are or how to use them since I use heat set paints only at this time but I do know if they are dry pigments they have been around for painting for eons. Literally. So while the technique for vinyl might be originally hers if Melissa is just selling the powders and developed the formulation herself apart from Sue Ellen's powders then I'm not understanding the issue other than it can be kinda viewed as undercutting if she is selling them for less?? Would "Authentic Reborn" heat Set Paints be considered undercutting Genesis? Or would Miracle Blend be undercutting Luminaire? Nah. And they even all have free tutorials too!
Helen_C
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Re: Baby FX Powders

Post by Helen_C »

Georgianne, we call it "Tall Poppy Syndrome " here.
ColorMeVinyl
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Re: Baby FX Powders

Post by ColorMeVinyl »

The problem here is that Melissa George was fully aware that Sue had asked her group of 1000 women if there was any interest in a custom LiveEffects pallet using Sue's method. In other words, her colors which would be pure pigment meant to stain the vinyl and create the opportunity for transparency and realism. Her training in the special fx industry allows her to understand the technical backside of nanometers in color. She does lectures on this and is sharing it with us for free.

What Melissa George did was after that interest in Sue's group was expressed by Sue's followers, she sent Sue Ellen baby fx paint to "test" with powders. All the while knowing she was intending to put out a pallet of her own in competition with Sue. Now she is upselling at a ridiculous rate and took advantage of Sue Ellens good nature. While this may be legal, it begs the question of doing business with someone who lacks integrity at the very least.

Let me further explain that AFTER Miracle Blend paints and paint pens were released, she did the same thing. She adapted them to baby fx and marketed as though it was her idea. It was CLEARLY not. So point being, I am not interested in supporting someone who rides off of other's ideas and takes advantage of people who are kind to them knowing full well they have had a heart attack, lost a brother, and are suffering with lots of health issues. It is like kicking a wounded deer as they are trying to stand up.

Furthermore, Melissa George has made eyeshadow. It is white with some pigment added. It is far from pure. That is going to prevent powder work from staining the vinyl and give it the effect it is intended to have. This is what happens when someone has no knowledge of color theory and just piggybacks from others ideas. There would be no demand for powders if it were not for Sue's free group.

As my final thought, I have to say all the nonsense about trade secrets? Well I call it nonsense because if the trade secrets are out, well then the real artists will shine. If you are reliant on secrets than I suppose you are afraid of competition. If you are confident in your ability as an artist secrets don't matter. If they do you are not so much an artist if everyone can do what you do. I encourage you to consider that the more quality reborns there are out there, the more attention it brings to the reborning world. That means more customers for everyone. The better the realism all around, the more demand there will be. It is better for everyone to see reborning as a legitimate art. You may not see it that way,but when someone is showing a reborn to a friend and they see a beautiful baby, they will start searching for artists. I encourage you to open your mind on this topic and give it some sincere consideration.
Helen_C
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Re: Baby FX Powders

Post by Helen_C »

ColorMeVinyl. Do you have a name? Conditions of membership in here is that your name is supposed to be included. I am sure your mother didn't name you ColorMeVinyl.
ColorMeVinyl
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Re: Baby FX Powders

Post by ColorMeVinyl »

Oh yes I have a name. Jennifer Etcheverry. I am proud of my name. Looking forward to Christmas cards from all my new fans, I am sure.
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Re: Baby FX Powders

Post by Helen_C »

:hi ya:
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