Introduction

[MikeTheEngineer]

Hi Mike, welcome to DF. I am always happy to see a new artist, which you are now by the way. I look forward to following your progress. Looks like you are on the right track and doing a great job.

^_^
I'll never call myself an artist, as I have Zero creativity. Thus why my moniker is Engineer. ^_^ You can feel free to call me whichever you prefer.

[MikeTheEngineer]

So... my first doll was a proof of concept, just to figure out an optimized way to create the molds. The limbs don't quite match the body. Each individual piece came out GREAT... but it's definitely a 'misfit toy', but I'm so proud of it anyway. Because it wasn't meant to be a 'for sale' doll, I didn't use any coloring in the silicone... so it's a milky white, and virtually impossible to get good photos of. I intend on practice painting on it... so hopefully I can get enough detail to take pics. ^_^ Oh... and the first one was an 'elfin' baby... I wanted to see if I could get enough detail. The ears are tiny, pointy and came out perfectly! The ears are about 1-1.5 inches long and oh so delicate. So happy they came out of the mold intact with no problem.

[chelle77]

Welcome! Looking forward to seeing your creations!

[MikeTheEngineer]

It's hard to get a good picture.

*Note* I know the limbs don't line up. This was created just to test my processes, and the way I had the original model cut simply wouldn't work with my molding hardware. I found this out *after* I had the body poured. Rather than let it go to waste, I re-cut the limbs, knowing they wouldn't quite line up. I did hope they'd line up better. And it'll give me a change to practice my painting.
The doll is 17inches and wasn't designed to be high enough quality for sell. I'm thrilled with how well each part turned out, but horrified at how badly they line up. Maybe some creative trimming will help.

The next one will be *considerably* better.

[MikeTheEngineer]

Love the ears!

[lisasdolls]

Welcome to Dollfan. I really like the hand of your sculpt. The fingers and nail beds are great. Maybe more detail in the palms of the hand. I think you will due great at this. Lisa

[Dan_O]

Mike,
You are getting there. When we (D3 Creation) started out my intention was to do exactly as you are doing, only we mold for others so I was going to scan their sculpt then clean it up digitally then print the molds like you have.

Well at the time there was no printer that was free of banding (and even today while the banding is so much better with liquid laser) that still is an issue today.

So I debated doing a hybrid of ... scan, then print the scan ... clean the print, then traditional mold the cleaned print, but the reality was I was not saving any time or money doing it that way, actually the investment was 5 times the cost of traditional molding / casting because of the scanner pricing and software.

In the doll world if you want to be considered high quality you most pour the entire body and limbs on one solid pour ... which can still be easily done with 3D printed molds, it just takes a little more effort ... but again it is very do-able, big industry does it all the time and not with a giant printer. Harris printed out an entire half scale helicopter from a printer with only a 10" x 10" x 12" print bed.

The real issues you need to over come in your method are:
1)The banding left behind on the surface (this is difficult because removing the banding also removes detail ... which is the reason we stopped pursuing 3D printing. We work for others and can not be removing detail, that is part of the realism)
2)The seams that are going to be on the doll from where your molds join together ... seaming silicone is a tough skill to learn.

I look forward to hearing about how you progress and wish you the best. Your concept is very feasible, you just have to refine its finish quality to be successful in the collectible world but it is already very close to high enough quality for the special effects world (can hide imperfections from the camera or remove then in editing).

Dan

[MikeTheEngineer]

Mike,
You are getting there. When we (D3 Creation) started out my intention was to do exactly as you are doing, only we mold for others so I was going to scan their sculpt then clean it up digitally then print the molds like you have.

Well at the time there was no printer that was free of banding (and even today while the banding is so much better with liquid laser) that still is an issue today.

So I debated doing a hybrid of ... scan, then print the scan ... clean the print, then traditional mold the cleaned print, but the reality was I was not saving any time or money doing it that way, actually the investment was 5 times the cost of traditional molding / casting because of the scanner pricing and software.

In the doll world if you want to be considered high quality you most pour the entire body and limbs on one solid pour ... which can still be easily done with 3D printed molds, it just takes a little more effort ... but again it is very do-able, big industry does it all the time and not with a giant printer. Harris printed out an entire half scale helicopter from a printer with only a 10" x 10" x 12" print bed.

The real issues you need to over come in your method are:
1)The banding left behind on the surface (this is difficult because removing the banding also removes detail ... which is the reason we stopped pursuing 3D printing. We work for others and can not be removing detail, that is part of the realism)
2)The seams that are going to be on the doll from where your molds join together ... seaming silicone is a tough skill to learn.

I look forward to hearing about how you progress and wish you the best. Your concept is very feasible, you just have to refine its finish quality to be successful in the collectible world but it is already very close to high enough quality for the special effects world (can hide imperfections from the camera or remove then in editing).

Dan

"Well at the time there was no printer that was free of banding"
There's several work arounds for this. Easiest is just flat out ignore it. At 200 microns, it just feels like texture, add baby powder and it feels completely smooth. If that's still to much of a problem... I can work with as fine as 50 microns.

"In the doll world if you want to be considered high quality you most pour the entire body and limbs on one solid pour ... which can still be easily done with 3D printed molds" When you say one solid pour, are you still talking about a two part mold? You'd never be able to do this with a 3D printer, due to overhangs, and size of printers. Maybe if you use a 'liquid lazer' printer that you can "lease" for $40k a year...

The two issues with creating the molds: Overhangs (which is fixed by dividing into smaller sections.. which causes problem two) and putting all the parts back together.
Even if I can't get up to the $10-20k per doll quality level, if I can get something that's really good, and can be customized rapidly, I'll be quite happy. ^_^ From what I read, there is a great need for custom dolls... I want to fill that need.

[Kelliegirl]

Hello and Welcome to Doll Fan!

As a collector, I can't wait to see what you are able to do!

[Dan_O]

Mike,
You are getting there. When we (D3 Creation) started out my intention was to do exactly as you are doing, only we mold for others so I was going to scan their sculpt then clean it up digitally then print the molds like you have.

Well at the time there was no printer that was free of banding (and even today while the banding is so much better with liquid laser) that still is an issue today.

So I debated doing a hybrid of ... scan, then print the scan ... clean the print, then traditional mold the cleaned print, but the reality was I was not saving any time or money doing it that way, actually the investment was 5 times the cost of traditional molding / casting because of the scanner pricing and software.

In the doll world if you want to be considered high quality you most pour the entire body and limbs on one solid pour ... which can still be easily done with 3D printed molds, it just takes a little more effort ... but again it is very do-able, big industry does it all the time and not with a giant printer. Harris printed out an entire half scale helicopter from a printer with only a 10" x 10" x 12" print bed.

The real issues you need to over come in your method are:
1)The banding left behind on the surface (this is difficult because removing the banding also removes detail ... which is the reason we stopped pursuing 3D printing. We work for others and can not be removing detail, that is part of the realism)
2)The seams that are going to be on the doll from where your molds join together ... seaming silicone is a tough skill to learn.

I look forward to hearing about how you progress and wish you the best. Your concept is very feasible, you just have to refine its finish quality to be successful in the collectible world but it is already very close to high enough quality for the special effects world (can hide imperfections from the camera or remove then in editing).

Dan

"Well at the time there was no printer that was free of banding"
There's several work arounds for this. Easiest is just flat out ignore it. At 200 microns, it just feels like texture, add baby powder and it feels completely smooth. If that's still to much of a problem... I can work with as fine as 50 microns.

"In the doll world if you want to be considered high quality you most pour the entire body and limbs on one solid pour ... which can still be easily done with 3D printed molds" When you say one solid pour, are you still talking about a two part mold? You'd never be able to do this with a 3D printer, due to overhangs, and size of printers. Maybe if you use a 'liquid lazer' printer that you can "lease" for $40k a year...

The two issues with creating the molds: Overhangs (which is fixed by dividing into smaller sections.. which causes problem two) and putting all the parts back together.
Even if I can't get up to the $10-20k per doll quality level, if I can get something that's really good, and can be customized rapidly, I'll be quite happy. ^_^ From what I read, there is a great need for custom dolls... I want to fill that need.

Easiest is just flat out ignore it. .... you can not ... not in the collector world ... ignoring it belongs in the Special Effects world ... a true doll collector wants the doll to be so realistic that it has finger prints (no one does this) but the attention to detail has to be at that level.

You'd never be able to do this with a 3D printer, due to overhangs, and size of printers. ... yes you can create a mold large enough to pour a 20 inch doll in one piece poured all at one time from a printer that only has a print bed of 8" x 6" x 6" ... but you have to understand how to create the mold ... and no I did not say a "2 part mold" ... and it can be done with an extrusion printer

From what I read, there is a great need for custom dolls... I want to fill that need ... there is but the need is for high quality collectible items, there are plenty of Special Effects quality dolls out there ... and those lower end dolls tend to confuse the market place because they are stated as "high quality" "collectible" etc.

So as a better direction for custom dolls that come from 3D prints you would be better served in the vinyl doll category (if you don't want to add the traditional steps to your process) ... Bountiful Baby uses 3D processes to create some of their dolls and it adapts VERY well there because muting of detail is expected in vinyl so the 50 - 200 micron banding goes away in the process of creating the mold for the vinyl.

[MikeTheEngineer]

"Easiest is just flat out ignore it. .... you can not ... not in the collector world ... ignoring it belongs in the Special Effects world ... a true doll collector wants the doll to be so realistic that it has finger prints (no one does this) but the attention to detail has to be at that level."
From what I've seen sold on Ebay... (not for sale... SOLD) quality is by absolutely no means required. I've seen what amounts to mangled blobs of silicone with smatterings of random paint sell for $500.
I seriously doubt we'll be catering to the same group of people. ^_^
I'm Only going to work in full body silicone, and I'm only going to work with my method of mold generation. I will do everything I can to improve the quality of results as best I can using my molds. If people buy them for at least what I have in materials, I'll keep making them. If not, I'll stop.
I do have methods of removing the banding and seams, and it shouldn't remove much, if any, of the detail. Won't know till I try.

[Melissas Babies]

Love the Mind of the Engineer . I do . I have been doing these Babies for over 50 years. I have Pioneered many types of Dolls in many mediums. with silicone being the ultimate choice for realism . I hope to one day be able to cloan one .LOLOLOL(not really) Practice is important and Failure is a given. been there done that. you have a lot to learn yet and the journey will be difficult. If you succeed it is so rewarding!! Good luck and hope we have been some help

[Denise O]

We wish you luck and can't wait to see your creations. It will be exciting to see you bring to life ideas we stared dreaming with for our business 6 years ago when we started on this endeavor.

"Easiest is just flat out ignore it. .... you can not ... not in the collector world ... ignoring it belongs in the Special Effects world ... a true doll collector wants the doll to be so realistic that it has finger prints (no one does this) but the attention to detail has to be at that level."
From what I've seen sold on Ebay... (not for sale... SOLD) quality is by absolutely no means required. I've seen what amounts to mangled blobs of silicone with smatterings of random paint sell for $500.
I seriously doubt we'll be catering to the same group of people. ^_^
I'm Only going to work in full body silicone, and I'm only going to work with my method of mold generation. I will do everything I can to improve the quality of results as best I can using my molds. If people buy them for at least what I have in materials, I'll keep making them. If not, I'll stop.
I do have methods of removing the banding and seams, and it shouldn't remove much, if any, of the detail. Won't know till I try.

[MikeTheEngineer]

We wish you luck and can't wait to see your creations. It will be exciting to see you bring to life ideas we stared dreaming with for our business 6 years ago when we started on this endeavor.

"Easiest is just flat out ignore it. .... you can not ... not in the collector world ... ignoring it belongs in the Special Effects world ... a true doll collector wants the doll to be so realistic that it has finger prints (no one does this) but the attention to detail has to be at that level."
From what I've seen sold on Ebay... (not for sale... SOLD) quality is by absolutely no means required. I've seen what amounts to mangled blobs of silicone with smatterings of random paint sell for $500.
I seriously doubt we'll be catering to the same group of people. ^_^
I'm Only going to work in full body silicone, and I'm only going to work with my method of mold generation. I will do everything I can to improve the quality of results as best I can using my molds. If people buy them for at least what I have in materials, I'll keep making them. If not, I'll stop.
I do have methods of removing the banding and seams, and it shouldn't remove much, if any, of the detail. Won't know till I try.

Thanks. I'm already quite proud of my prototype, mismatched limbs and all. ^_^

[Brooke]

This is a video I watched on YouTube. Please understand, I'm not a sculptor nor do I cast silicone dolls. I watched it just out of curiousity, but I learned how some of it was/is done.

[MikeTheEngineer]

This is a video I watched on YouTube. Please understand, I'm not a sculptor nor do I cast silicone dolls. I watched it just out of curiousity, but I learned how some of it was/is done.

Thanks. That's actually one of the videos that make me start thinking "There *must* be a better way"

1: It requires hand sculpts (and usually destroys them in the process)
2: Making the mold out of silicone can't be cheap
3: Molds made out of silicone have limited re-usabilty, from my understanding they are good for 3-10 castings only.
4. No ability to modify. Someone wants that exact baby, but with a 3rd eye... Easy as pie with a 3D model.
5. This method requires Lots of time and direct attention, preventing rapid production.

The results are outstanding. But if I can solve 1-5 above, and get close to the quality... That's my goal. (well... one of them. Eventually I'd love to design my own skeletal and armature system... and Pipedream is to add animatronics and simple voice commands)

[erin1958]

Hi Mike and welcome aboard. Great to have a new guy around. We used to have a couple guys but I'm not sure if they're still around or not. I think it's great what your doing and I wish you nothing but good luck with it. Sounds very interesting. I was sad to hear that you've not been able to adopt a little one of your own. You sound like you'd be a loving Dad. It's so hard how it is made so difficult for people who don't fit "the mold" of what they approve of. So wrong. I'm sorry. Keep striving to do what you enjoy and above all, keep happy!!

Welcome again, Erin

[Brooke]

Mike, silicone collectors don't want a doll that has had 25-50 or more dolls made from the same mold. It is the fact that there is limited reusability, thus fewer dolls of a specific sculpt, that makes them more precious/valuable. So it isn't so much a matter of the time it takes to produce a sili, it is the quality of the doll. Most artists are willing to wait for their special sili. Again, please understand I'm just a novice at painting and not a sculptor or pourer, but I read and read about this all the time. I'm starting to get interested in silis and am working on my first paint job.

[MikeTheEngineer]

Well, my idea of using plastic wrap to smooth out the mold, and cover holes, didn't go as plan. It did make it smooth, and prevent leaks... but disintegrated into the doll itself. ~_~ On to the next idea!

[marilyn]

Mike, welcome and I think that is ingenious of you to use your engineering skills to create the silicone dolls. I look forward to seeing all your creations.