SILICONE SUMMER HEAD BROKE OFF AT NECK by andrea arcello :(

[Jasmin]

My Summer is still in one piece just like she was the day she came home !

I am sorry to hear that some Summer's have fallen apart even with proper care.

I don't understand why some of these dolls in this edition are breaking, it makes no sense.

Of course I don't play or dress my dolls very much, don't bathe them either. To me these dolls are a piece of Art to be treasured and treated that way, like you would with Art you just display it and not play with it.

I also have my dolls in a very cold room all year long, I don't heat my room in the winter and in the summer the air conditioner is set on 66 !

Oh and I see someone mentioned " Hellomelissasue's " Emerie Mei's hole in her arm, that is most certainly Melissa's own fault, I watched the video where she had a hard time getting off this to tight baby bathing suit top and then she noticed the hole, I can only imagine how she had to pull and stretch out the silicone to even put that tiny outfit on. Also she has had Emerie Mei for years with constant dressing, bathing, taking it out and treating it like a play doll. Andrea can not be blamed for Melissa's own mishandling of a fragile piece of Art that is not supposed to be played with like you would with a cheap plastic play doll.

The fact that your Summer is okay and one that I had way back when that edition came out went bad almost immediately says to me that you just got lucky that this hasn't happened to your doll......I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that you don't "play" with the doll as Monica has stated that her doll was stored in a closet and only dressed very occasionally........if the silicone is going bad for whatever reason, handling or no handling will not matter at all.....it would just be a matter of time.

And for the record, I didn't "play" with my Summer either and she started to fall apart almost immediately........and her paint was peeling when I got her as well. I'm glad that you have had nice dolls by Andrea, but let's remember that you were one of the very lucky few collectors who got an Elliot Lucas produced by Claire, and I think she is one of the very best silicone pourers in the business, so keep that in mind! Many other Elliot Lucas's from that edition after Andrea started pouring the silicone herself were awful and she wasn't willing to compensate those collectors either, and not even telling her customers that she stopped using Claire to pour the dolls was in my opinion dishonest to say the least .

First of Kelli Summer was not poured and made into silicone by Andrea herself !

Second the Summer issues have nothing to do with the " Elliott Lucas edition and what happened there.

No matter what... it just makes no sense that some Summer's are breaking apart and others do not ( especially since Andrea did not produce them in silicone herself ).

[LynnW]

I have been collecting a long time, but took a long hiatus when my children were born and have only gotten back into it in the past year and I missed a lot of the threads about all the issues with Andrea's dolls. Those of us who like her work and have not experienced issues do continue to buy from her, myself included! I am expecting a very special new baby from her and it is hard to read threads like this because all the bashing really does rob collectors like myself the joy of anticipating that new baby.

I am extremely empathetic to those who have had issues. I wrote Andrea out of concern about what I was reading on the thread and Linda did write me back to tell me that she and Andrea offered Monica a discount off of a future doll. To me, that is fair. Just like the refrigerator example that was shared, you can't expect a full refund years after the fact. For dolls Andrea sells now, she does offer a 2 year warranty for the original purchaser. I also agree that these matters can be handled professionally and privately without public bashing.

I personally resent the implication that just because someone had an issue with an artist, that we are all expected to jump on the bandwagon of boycotting that artist in the future. Maybe that wasn't explicitly stated but it seemed to be implied. I really don't think it's fair. If you go to Amazon and look up a product and read the reviews, sometimes there are positive reviews and sometimes there are negative reviews. Both sides absolutely have the right to tell their sides and then it's up to others to make the right decision for themselves.

I have two babies purchased directly from Andrea (Emerie Mei and Melina) plus two purchased secondhand from other Doll-Fan ladies (a second Emerie Mei and Maggie). All of them are in perfect condition so I only have my own experience to go by. I have two other babies I am expecting from Andrea, Eleanor and her new baby that is coming out. I continue to buy from her because I just adore her sculpting -- she is very talented in my opinion and her babies are incredibly realistic. She is also constantly innovating and her new baby coming out will have some new features she hasn't had previously.

As these artists innovate, there is going to be a learning curve. And we have to understand that, as this is an ART, not a science. I do understand why some might not want to purchase from her given their personal experience, but they should also allow the rest of us to make our own decisions.

I hope that by my coming on here and sharing this that I won't be flamed -- it's not my intention to attack anyone here. I truly do appreciate my dolly friendships with many of you, some of whom might not share my same opinion, and that's totally ok! But I do hope that it's still ok for me and other collectors to come on here and share our beautiful Arcello babies and not get attacked or disliked for it.

[MonicaW]

Just browsed didn't read everything bad glad I saw this written by Lynn.

This is an outright Lie Andrea and Linda DID NOT OFFER ME A DISCOUNT ON A FUTURE DOLL!!!! THEY OFFERED ME NOTHING BUT OBNOXIOUS EMAILS. This is from Lynn's post copied and pasted:
"I am extremely empathetic to those who have had issues. I wrote Andrea out of concern about what I was reading on the thread and Linda did write me back to tell me that she and Andrea offered Monica a discount off of a future doll."

[MonicaW]

I want to add something else. Michelle Fagan has come on here and made posts explaining her side. That takes alot of courage. That also tells me people who have nothing to hide hide nothing. Andrea Arcello has not come on here to say anything. She has let Michelle take all the blame. After a few days I have listen and had time to think.Michelle has made good points. The heads are way too heavy. I do think that explains why the rip at the neck. Melissa makes ball jointed heads with upper torso. All of Andreas dolls that are not full bodied should be recalled and should be made into ball jointed heads with an upper torso in my opinion. But then as Michelle said you have the creases. She told us she warned Andrea about these potential problems over and over again. Her responsibility ends there.

HOWEVER UNLIKE WHAT ANDREA ARCELLO'S CLAIMS SHE DID FOR ME MICHELLE STILL OFFERED ME ONE OF HER NEW DOLLS AT A DISCOUNT BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED.

Inclusion after the smoke has now cleared this is how I feel. I have a silicone boy sculpted by Michelle Fagan same time my 11 year old daughter was born. He is called Christmas boy renamed Sean. He is perfect. He was sculpted and poured by Michelle, painted and rooted. I have 11 year old Hayden & 10 year old Giovanni by LTR poured by Michelle. The list goes on until she stopped pouring. All my other silicones poured by Michelle are perfect.

I have spoken to many people and the problems with Andrea dolls continued after Michelle stopped pouring. Every single one of her dolls have problems. And I know many people who she has treated horrible in reaction to her dolls falling apart on them. People have spent 7500 on her Maggie with a spine to have it fall apart a few weeks after and she dragged their name through the mud. This is is a two way street. For all if you that have her dolls and nothing is wrong YET Becareful of what you say this could be you one day and you write her and she responds to you and doesn't give a damn. How would you feel? Think twice. This is not an isolated situation.

And in my opinion after I have heard everything and Andrea has chosen to remain silent as the guilty party often does.

I think she threw Michelle Fagan under the bus.

I am sorry Michelle that you got dragged through this. I know this hurt me. I can't imagine how it hurt you. But you stood your ground. You spoke up. You told the truth. And in the end the truth always wins. Have to go take a look at your new cute babies. You always made such adorable cuddly babies.Hugs
My 11 year old daughter with Michelle Fagan
11 year old Silicone Christmas boy who is still perfect! And is not a refrigerator!

[NadiaK]

Monica,
I just love the picture of your little daughter and Michelle's Christmas boy. So darn sweet !!!

[LynnW]

Just browsed didn't read everything bad glad I saw this written by Lynn.

This is an outright Lie Andrea and Linda DID NOT OFFER ME A DISCOUNT ON A FUTURE DOLL!!!! THEY OFFERED ME NOTHING BUT OBNOXIOUS EMAILS. This is from Lynn's post copied and pasted:
"I am extremely empathetic to those who have had issues. I wrote Andrea out of concern about what I was reading on the thread and Linda did write me back to tell me that she and Andrea offered Monica a discount off of a future doll."

Monica, I'm confused because here is the note I received from Linda when I contacted her and Andrea about this thread and the situation a couple days ago:

"Yesterday was a rough day for us, due to the negative threads posted. The story behind it is that a lady is angry because she did not know discounts were available to Summer owners who have had issues with their babies. We offered her a discount on a future doll rather than a refund this long after the sale, she then began her threats.... Andrea does everything within her power to make her customers happy. It is unfortunate that her former doll pourer produced some babies that have had some issues with the silicone. That is why she now has control over every aspect of these babies and backs them 100%."

Did she not offer you a discount as she stated to me? If she didn't, I would get in contact to take her up on the offer. It seems like a fair resolution to the issue.

By the way, your daughter as a baby was so cute!

[MonicaW]

She DID NOT OFFER Me a discount on a future doll. This is why I am so upset. I have been around since dollfan was one page. She is outright lying. She has done this to costumers before . She lies about them. She bashing them when they contact her about a problem with doll. The first time I contacted her and said the head ripped off the neck she wrote I am sorry you are dissatisfied with your doll. But their is nothing we can do for you at this time. Dissatisfied with my doll? She was willing to nothing for me I was shocked. I found out this happened to many people. And starting posting. Eventually Steve combined the posts so all the docs would be here for the future for anyone who wants to add if this happens to them. The sculptor who made Levi and Saska Bonnie Brown it happen to her Summer big thread on her fb page. I am just trying to protect other collectors from getting hurt. I was hurt by how I was treated and shocked. I amazed that she is outright lying to you.
That tells me everything I need to know.
She knows she is wrong why else would she lie.
So I can sleep at night knowing that.
Hugs Lynn
And thanks ladies the years went so fast with my daughter she is already boy crazy..lol

[Court_LLRN]

I honestly just want to know what the heck is causing the peels, tears, holes and crumbling to her dolls... my Nadia peeled, tore at the creases and crumbled apart at the arm and neck dolls flange.
What is the explanation for this?? Michelle was the pourer (at least I think?) but was Andrea the one who painted? If you've been working with silicone for THIS long - you should know what works and what doesn't work. And if you don't know - YOU FIND OUT. There has yet to be given an explanation about this. Andrea blames Michelle for the pouring of the silicone (although some of the ones Andrea poured have had issues) but, as Michelle said, all other artists' dolls she done have been fine. So if it's not the silicone they were poured in - what is it??
Just knowing what the heck has happened/ is happening to these dolls would be a huge help as then it could be avoided with future editions.

[KrisC]

Kris,
I have no answer....none of my dolls are that way. I always thought my dolls smelled like baby powder. Not vinegar when they leave me.
We know Andrea's dolls have those problems
Does anyone else here have problems with Lauras? I asked Laura a while back and she said hers were basically fine...we all get a split crease now and then......Please let me know...

My dolls painted fine for me and I know I asked Laura in the past if she had trouble painting or anything and she said no.

I poured all dolls solid at the time - no hollow ones.

Monica, I said I would credit toward a doll purchase after all everyone here wants a doll.....and I am not wealthy enough to just give away money....I will however take a loss of profit on a purchase of my doll to make up for Andrea's dolls...again I am not claiming any fault with andrea's dolls as I believe I did nothing wrong - I am just trying to help as I can with the very small profits I made from pouring andrea's dolls....

Sandra, I agree with you. I also have seen dolls being sold for thousands and thousands and then i see the actual rough jagged pour or the peeling paint and no one is bashing them.....

Only a few of them smell vinegary... ur lissy and londyn smell ok but are snapping and tearing (breaks my heart because I love these two soooo much but now are in a box) and are oily. LTR's Serena and Sophia actually crumbled in the face and hands and feet like little holes, smelled so bad. Looked like mice had gotten to them (no, it wasn't mice) . Andreas are crumbling, snapping and tearing. I had to get rid of my LTR babies because they were just falling apart. I still have lissy, londyn and Nadia but are in a box.
I truly wish I knew why this was happening. Why are these dolls mimicking tin silicone???

[Melissas Babies]

If you ever smelled slaker . it smells!!! it is an additive to make silicone softer and more flexable . and you can add quite a bit to make silicone go farther.

also thi vex for silicone thickening really stinks!!!! only use this for out side layer of mold making

[Melissas Babies]

I f you remember Eco flex has only been around a few years for Doll making. before it was Dragon skin or Fx pro

[KrisC]

If you ever smelled slaker . it smells!!! it is an additive to make silicone softer and more flexable . and you can add quite a bit to make silicone go farther.

also thi vex for silicone thickening really stinks!!!! only use this for out side layer of mold making

Silpoxy smells like vinegar too. Guy Louis told me when u smell vinegar it's Tin related.
All the dolls I've smelled this with are hard 50 shore... doesn't make sense there would be slacker in it cause they are hard.
I will say Melissa, I've never had a problem with your dolls like these. No vinegar smell, no snapping or tearing after a few years, no crumbling and I can always get my platinum to stick.

[Carolr]

kris, LTR’s babies were also crumbling and falling apart? So it’s just not one artist.

I have had babies from LTR and Andrea and they have all been fine.

[Melissas Babies]

I don't know then. But in the 20 years I have been making them I have never had one fall apart!! and Guy Louie was one of the Best!! O learned a lot from him

[LynnW]

She DID NOT OFFER Me a discount on a future doll. This is why I am so upset. I have been around since dollfan was one page. She is outright lying. She has done this to costumers before . She lies about them. She bashing them when they contact her about a problem with doll. The first time I contacted her and said the head ripped off the neck she wrote I am sorry you are dissatisfied with your doll. But their is nothing we can do for you at this time. Dissatisfied with my doll? She was willing to nothing for me I was shocked. I found out this happened to many people. And starting posting. Eventually Steve combined the posts so all the docs would be here for the future for anyone who wants to add if this happens to them. The sculptor who made Levi and Saska Bonnie Brown it happen to her Summer big thread on her fb page. I am just trying to protect other collectors from getting hurt. I was hurt by how I was treated and shocked. I amazed that she is outright lying to you.
That tells me everything I need to know.
She knows she is wrong why else would she lie.
So I can sleep at night knowing that.
Hugs Lynn
And thanks ladies the years went so fast with my daughter she is already boy crazy..lol

Hi Monica, I messaged Andrea and Linda to see if they would offer you the discount as she mentions and let her know you did not have the impression that this was an option. I hope you are able to connect and reach a resolution. Big hugs and again I'm so sorry this happened to you and others. I know how attached we get to these cherished babies! I also hope our community can figure out what went wrong so it stops happening and that the innovation and new/better materials makes these issues a thing of the past.

Hugs to you and all the ladies!

[Sandras Dreams]

How a person paints a doll does not have anything to do with the silicone tearing or crumbling. Tearing or crumbling has to do with the actual silicone that was used to pour the doll

I honestly just want to know what the heck is causing the peels, tears, holes and crumbling to her dolls... my Nadia peeled, tore at the creases and crumbled apart at the arm and neck dolls flange.
What is the explanation for this?? Michelle was the pourer (at least I think?) but was Andrea the one who painted? If you've been working with silicone for THIS long - you should know what works and what doesn't work. And if you don't know - YOU FIND OUT. There has yet to be given an explanation about this. Andrea blames Michelle for the pouring of the silicone (although some of the ones Andrea poured have had issues) but, as Michelle said, all other artists' dolls she done have been fine. So if it's not the silicone they were poured in - what is it??
Just knowing what the heck has happened/ is happening to these dolls would be a huge help as then it could be avoided with future editions.

[Sandras Dreams]

What everything boils down to is money and miscommunication. I agree with Lynn. Well said!
"Hi Monica, I messaged Andrea and Linda to see if they would offer you the discount as she mentions and let her know you did not have the impression that this was an option. I hope you are able to connect and reach a resolution. Big hugs and again I'm so sorry this happened to you and others. I know how attached we get to these cherished babies! I also hope our community can figure out what went wrong so it stops happening and that the innovation and new/better materials makes these issues a thing of the past."

Hugs to you and all the ladies!

[Court_LLRN]

How a person paints a doll does not have anything to do with the silicone tearing or crumbling. Tearing or crumbling has to do with the actual silicone that was used to pour the doll

I honestly just want to know what the heck is causing the peels, tears, holes and crumbling to her dolls... my Nadia peeled, tore at the creases and crumbled apart at the arm and neck dolls flange.
What is the explanation for this?? Michelle was the pourer (at least I think?) but was Andrea the one who painted? If you've been working with silicone for THIS long - you should know what works and what doesn't work. And if you don't know - YOU FIND OUT. There has yet to be given an explanation about this. Andrea blames Michelle for the pouring of the silicone (although some of the ones Andrea poured have had issues) but, as Michelle said, all other artists' dolls she done have been fine. So if it's not the silicone they were poured in - what is it??
Just knowing what the heck has happened/ is happening to these dolls would be a huge help as then it could be avoided with future editions.

That's definitely what I would have thought too...

[noniesgirl - Gina]

Kris,
I have no answer....none of my dolls are that way. I always thought my dolls smelled like baby powder. Not vinegar when they leave me.
We know Andrea's dolls have those problems
Does anyone else here have problems with Lauras? I asked Laura a while back and she said hers were basically fine...we all get a split crease now and then......Please let me know...

My dolls painted fine for me and I know I asked Laura in the past if she had trouble painting or anything and she said no.

I poured all dolls solid at the time - no hollow ones.

Monica, I said I would credit toward a doll purchase after all everyone here wants a doll.....and I am not wealthy enough to just give away money....I will however take a loss of profit on a purchase of my doll to make up for Andrea's dolls...again I am not claiming any fault with andrea's dolls as I believe I did nothing wrong - I am just trying to help as I can with the very small profits I made from pouring andrea's dolls....

Sandra, I agree with you. I also have seen dolls being sold for thousands and thousands and then i see the actual rough jagged pour or the peeling paint and no one is bashing them.....

Only a few of them smell vinegary... ur lissy and londyn smell ok but are snapping and tearing (breaks my heart because I love these two soooo much but now are in a box) and are oily. LTR's Serena and Sophia actually crumbled in the face and hands and feet like little holes, smelled so bad. Looked like mice had gotten to them (no, it wasn't mice) . Andreas are crumbling, snapping and tearing. I had to get rid of my LTR babies because they were just falling apart. I still have lissy, londyn and Nadia but are in a box.
I truly wish I knew why this was happening. Why are these dolls mimicking tin silicone???

My LTR silicone fell apart, I think it was Triston, I was told she had been poured by Michelle. She was laying down and one day I picked her up and her leg completely fell off. I undressed her to remove the rest of the leg from her body and noticed her head was coming off also, she was also torn behind one of her knees. So I checked my other dolls and found Nikki Fagan with a tear across the top of her foot. I sent them to Romie as she said she could repair them with silicone. She tried to repair them with Platinum silicone and it would not cure on these dolls and they were crumbling even worse. We could take the part that was up inside the body, pull on a piece and instead of stretching out, it would tear off and crumble in our fingers, pieces just fell off in our fingers. We tried SIlipoxi in the tears and that worked. I sold the LTR one at a huge loss because someone was wanting a silicone and couldn't afford a huge price. The flaws were pointed out to her. But couldn't bring myself to sell my Nikki Fagan baby. The tear on her foot was way too obvious and I didn't want to pawn her off onto someone else, since she was still crumbling. She was wrapped in a blanket and put away. I checked her this morning and one finger is barely on her hand, she is oily and if I pull the fingers gently apart, they start to tear. This doll hasn't been touched in about 3 years....... maybe more. I also have a Drew Fagan. She was doing fine, but I looked her over carefully this morning and her fingers are starting to tear and she is very oily and sticky. I have barely touched her since I saw Nikki falling apart. So she has just been laying in a bed, yet she is coming apart? I guess I will order another tube of Silipoxi and repair Drew and maybe sell her at a huge loss and include the silipoxi for future tears. It's just sad, so many people have lost so much money and will more than likely, continue to lose their dolls.

I mentioned these problems before and got jumped on via a very nasty PM. So I shut up about it, but now seeing more and more silicones by the same pourer falling apart, and another collector losing her doll, I felt it was time to let others know I had issues also. I don't play with my dolls and when I hold them, I hold them carefully, so it is nothing I have done. When I used to change their clothing at Christmas, I covered hands and feet with plastic bags, to protect fingers and toes. I have other silicones; Alira by Bonnie Brown, Mino by D3, Jodi-Lee by Romie Strydom, Little Dreamer by Marcia ????? and a preemie by Jennifer Sussman. Plus several mini's by Mellissa McCroryand some by other artists. They are as perfect as the day I got them. The preemie from Jennifer Sussman was made in 2007, she is perfect. Little Dreamer is from 2009 and is perfect. I don't know when Alira was poured, but she is perfect and has been held more than most of my silicones as she has gone to Care Centers with me to get cuddled many times. The ladies love her and she doesn't get too heavy for them to cuddle for long periods. I have had her since about 2010 or 2011, but I wasn't her first owner, however I got her as a blank kit and had Pam paint her for me.

For Kris and Romie both having problems getting Platinum to cure on these dolls poured by Michelle Fagan, a silicone painter saying it isn't anything the painter did and Melissa lending her knowledge... something is off about what some of these dolls were poured with. I once heard that Fagan babies were poured with Michelle's own secret formula, which made them "special". She may have change what she uses now, but at one time, something was amiss with what she used.

I also would like to know why the Summer's who have lost their heads, all have that hole in the neck? Who put that there? Since it is on more than one of the Summer dolls, it wasn't the buyers.

I trust everything that Mellisa McCrory says. She knows her silicone. I saw a 3 yr old carry around, play with and hug on a silicone that Melissa had made for about 4 days and she held up just fine. I bought a mermaid baby by Melissa and she was showing how it wouldn't tear by swinging it around by the tail. I also have mini babies I have bought from Melissa and I stretched one of them out to twice their length and not a tear, not a crumble. I would say that Melissa knows what she is talking about.