Probably not my business but.......???

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erin1958
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Probably not my business but.......???

Post by erin1958 » Sat May 05, 2018 8:55 pm

I’ve noticed many dolls for sale where the seller lists one price if the buyer pays “Friends and Family” and a higher price if they pay “Goods” using PayPal. Much of the time, that higher price asked is $200. more. Why is that? PayPal fees are only 3%. That means if the doll is $1000. F&F, it’s only going to be $1030. paid by Goods. Why pay $200. to cover a $30. fee? I’ve never understood this. I’d think it’d make the doll harder to sell too.

I’m not trying to start anything but I just think this is strange.
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Shannon
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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by Shannon » Sat May 05, 2018 11:16 pm

I've noticed that, too. Either they don't know how to do the math or they are trying to make the F&F price more appealing so the buyer is willing to sacrifice their protection with Paypal. The seller really wins in those situations because it keeps those transactions from showing towards sales that may cause them to receive a 1099K and it also eliminates their seller responsibilities to ensure the item is shipped, received, and in the condition as described.

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TinyGifts_Helena
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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by TinyGifts_Helena » Sun May 06, 2018 12:56 am

Idk why people do this. :roll: I always prefer friends and family as a method of payment from my buyers, but if my buyer wants to pay goods, I just ask they cover fees. I have no issue with it at all, and they never pay more than the actual PayPal fees. Marking something up hundreds of dollars just for wanting to use the goods and services option is ridiculous.. I’m not a collector, but if I was that is a huge turn off. It would probably have an effect on my decision for sure on purchasing the doll or not.
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blui
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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by blui » Sun May 06, 2018 2:18 am

Thank you Erin for the reminder of how much the %age is for PP fees. Great topic, I do not purchase F&F as a collector. As an Artist, I never ask people to pay me that way. I just move past the ones offering the discount "F&F" fee. :dunno:

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Pebby
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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by Pebby » Sun May 06, 2018 3:03 am

blui wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 2:18 am
Thank you Erin for the reminder of how much the %age is for PP fees. Great topic, I do not purchase F&F as a collector. As an Artist, I never ask people to pay me that way. I just move past the ones offering the discount "F&F" fee. :dunno:
As an artist I do the same.
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KLynn17
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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by KLynn17 » Sun May 06, 2018 4:51 am

This happens to me a lot when asking to buy a baby. The price jumps up a lot when I ask for goods and services and many times I don't buy the baby. I recently bought a baby with F&F (first time), and only because I read her reviews and she gave me the option of either F&F or G&S and it was only the 3% increase so I trusted her. I will say it was risky and I was a little nervous but all went great.
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Susan@childrenoftheheart
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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by Susan@childrenoftheheart » Sun May 06, 2018 5:04 am

It’s 2.9% for domestic sales and 4.4% for international sales. Just shipped to Germany and found they increased their fees from 3.9%!

If I’m interested in a doll/baby, I just tell the seller I will add the fees to her asking amount without fees that she stated.
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Rebecca Katie
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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by Rebecca Katie » Sun May 06, 2018 6:55 am

As a collector, I have to say it really bugs me when people say to pay as friends and family. I had an artist refuse to sell to me and then block me for "wasting her time" when I asked if I could pay goods and services with the fees covered. As an artist, I just set a price I want to sell for and calculate how much I will lose to fees. To me, the fees are part of the cost in making a reborn. Just like the kit, body, and paints. I add it all up to figure out my price. Maybe I'll get hate for saying this, but we choose to use PayPal and they need their cut to stay in business. It just seems the most ethical to have the customer pay for goods with goods and services.
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ttulsajess
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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by ttulsajess » Sun May 06, 2018 8:09 am

I, as an artist, feel it's dishonest to ask some one to pay friends and family. It's a business sale and if you choose PayPal for your business sales then you need to pay the fees that come along with that. If your buyer chooses to pay friends and family, that's up to them but even if you add the fees (and only the actual fees) into your item, you should be paying those. Not the buyer.

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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by lastingmemoriesnursery_Debra » Sun May 06, 2018 8:12 am

As an artist I think it is disgusting (sorry I have strong feelings on this) when anyone selling anyting asks for fees or to get paid by friends and family. Sorry it is the part of doing business period. It is also against PayPal rules . People keep trying to circumvent rules to make a few extra dollars at what cost? Eventually, and they have already started cracking down PayPal will do away with Friends and Family because people are taking advantage of it. It is also going against IRS laws as well. It leaves the buyer totally unprotected and it is just not right. I had the same issue when I was a truck driver lol. We would get booked on a load (which means wherever we are taking the load to they ordered the product) They would then charge us to unload their product that they ordered. Makes no sense.
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NadiaK
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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by NadiaK » Sun May 06, 2018 9:34 am

I would never pay anyone as friends & family for an expensive doll. I have done it when buying inexpensive doll clothes and such with members that I know and trust. Personally, anytime I sell a doll I always decide what price I want to get for the baby first. I then calculate what is needed to cover shipping and paypal fees and add that to my price. Then when I list the doll for sale, I will just say I am asking x number of dollars which includes everything. As many times as there have been threads on here saying don't pay with friends & family, it never ceases to amaze me how many people still will ask to be paid this way.
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Deb17
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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by Deb17 » Sun May 06, 2018 9:45 am

ttulsajess wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 8:09 am
I, as an artist, feel it's dishonest to ask some one to pay friends and family. It's a business sale and if you choose PayPal for your business sales then you need to pay the fees that come along with that. If your buyer chooses to pay friends and family, that's up to them but even if you add the fees (and only the actual fees) into your item, you should be paying those. Not the buyer.
I totally agree. If you had a brick and mortar store you wouldn't ask your customers to pay a portion of the rent for the store. That is part of the cost of doing business and shouldn't be put on the buyer.
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ttulsajess
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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by ttulsajess » Sun May 06, 2018 10:59 am

Deb17 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 9:45 am
ttulsajess wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 8:09 am
I, as an artist, feel it's dishonest to ask some one to pay friends and family. It's a business sale and if you choose PayPal for your business sales then you need to pay the fees that come along with that. If your buyer chooses to pay friends and family, that's up to them but even if you add the fees (and only the actual fees) into your item, you should be paying those. Not the buyer.
I totally agree. If you had a brick and mortar store you wouldn't ask your customers to pay a portion of the rent for the store. That is part of the cost of doing business and shouldn't be put on the buyer.
Isn't that part of what's called overhead? I feel that friends and family is just that. For friends and family. Even if they are buying something from you. If you don't know the person, they should be paying through goods.

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erin1958
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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by erin1958 » Sun May 06, 2018 1:16 pm

I’m glad to know that many people feel just as I do. Selling dolls is a business transaction and should be treated as such. It’s not a “F&F” transaction. PayPal is a business and should get their fees paid too. What would we all do without them???
I too agree that the seller is responsible for the fees but if they want to have them paid, just figure it into their cost for what they’re selling. Don’t cheat PayPal.

But still, and my original topic, if you’re charging someone for PayPal fees, I think you should charge ACTUAL fees, not hundreds of dollars more. That’s my opinion anyway.
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georgeanne
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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by georgeanne » Sun May 06, 2018 1:38 pm

I have thought perhaps it is just an arbitrary amount that a seller feels will cover the fees since they don't know and maybe are just a tad lacks in finding out the actual fees of the dollar amount a doll sells for instead of calculating the exact amount to charge for the fees. Hope that makes sense.
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ttulsajess
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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by ttulsajess » Sun May 06, 2018 1:47 pm

erin1958 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 1:16 pm
I’m glad to know that many people feel just as I do. Selling dolls is a business transaction and should be treated as such. It’s not a “F&F” transaction. PayPal is a business and should get their fees paid too. What would we all do without them???
I too agree that the seller is responsible for the fees but if they want to have them paid, just figure it into their cost for what they’re selling. Don’t cheat PayPal.

But still, and my original topic, if you’re charging someone for PayPal fees, I think you should charge ACTUAL fees, not hundreds of dollars more. That’s my opinion anyway.
100% agree with that. Don't charge more than you're being charged. I don't want to have to worry about it so I just round up on what I'm selling to a whole dollar amount. Well...except for the clothes I sell. I charge $3.50 for shipping on those because the postal fees keep going up and I can't include them in my prices anymore.

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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by jubileejulie » Sun May 06, 2018 3:00 pm

I have never seen people ask for that much less if paid friends and family. I have seen where people ask quite a bit less if sold off ebay AND paid friends and family. I think because then they don't have to pay the ebay fees.

rdodd75
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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by rdodd75 » Sun May 06, 2018 3:21 pm

I have seen sellers do this as well, add on ridiculous prices to cover paypal fees that are really only 3%. I refuse to deal with them.
I'm against recieving and sending payments as friends. As sellers we need to be fully aware that as recieving payment as friends we are setting ourselves up with no seller protection for that transaction and as easy targets for scamming. All a buyer needs to do is pay as friends, claim the transaction is unauthorised and paypal give them their money back.

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Shannon
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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by Shannon » Sun May 06, 2018 4:27 pm

rdodd75 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 3:21 pm
I have seen sellers do this as well, add on ridiculous prices to cover paypal fees that are really only 3%. I refuse to deal with them.
I'm against recieving and sending payments as friends. As sellers we need to be fully aware that as recieving payment as friends we are setting ourselves up with no seller protection for that transaction and as easy targets for scamming. All a buyer needs to do is pay as friends, claim the transaction is unauthorised and paypal give them their money back.
They don't even have to do that. F&F is for sending money as a gift or repayment for a loan or something amongst friends and family. It is NEVER for purchasing something. Paypal is not going to entertain a buyer claim if they have gone against their policy.

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Shannon
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Re: Probably not my business but.......???

Post by Shannon » Sun May 06, 2018 4:31 pm

ttulsajess wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 8:09 am
I, as an artist, feel it's dishonest to ask some one to pay friends and family. It's a business sale and if you choose PayPal for your business sales then you need to pay the fees that come along with that. If your buyer chooses to pay friends and family, that's up to them but even if you add the fees (and only the actual fees) into your item, you should be paying those. Not the buyer.
Exactly. As the seller, you are asking the buyer to use Paypal as a means of easily obtaining payment. Why be punished as a buyer for using the service that makes it convenient for the seller?

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