Silicone Limb attachment

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MikeTheEngineer
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Silicone Limb attachment

Post by MikeTheEngineer » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:07 pm

So, what's the standard way of attaching silicone limbs to a silicone body?

I tried mixing small amounts of silicone to use for 'glue' but it takes 4 hours to cure... and getting multiple pieces to stay in place isn't feasible.
So, I'm stuck with waiting hours per limb? Or is there some 'quick dry' silicone that's used? Or do ppl use superglue?

Brooke
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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by Brooke » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:18 pm

I'm not an expert, but on a "full-body silicone" I believe they are molded in one piece along with the body, not glued or stuck on afterwards.

For a doll that doesn't have a silicone body, the head, arms and legs are secured into a "cloth body" which you can find on most reborn doll supply sites.

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MikeTheEngineer
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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by MikeTheEngineer » Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:56 am

Brooke wrote:I'm not an expert, but on a "full-body silicone" I believe they are molded in one piece along with the body, not glued or stuck on afterwards.

For a doll that doesn't have a silicone body, the head, arms and legs are secured into a "cloth body" which you can find on most reborn doll supply sites.
That doesn't seem reasonably feasible, as you'd have pretty extreme difficulty getting the doll out of the mold, would you not? If you had the legs/arms posed, those tiny little fingers and toes would be at the very end of the mold, and would risk damage. I know I've seen vids where ppl attached the limbs to full silicone body, but can't seem to locate them any more. ~_~

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Tracy Lorraine
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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by Tracy Lorraine » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:31 am

Brooke is correct. Most reputable molders/casters are pouring full body silicone dolls in one piece. It's a very difficult job with a lot of equipment required to produce quality dolls.
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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by Melissas Babies » Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:46 am

Most silicones that are used with Doll making today have a set time of approx 30 minits. Faster cure can be achieved with heat. 72 to 75 degrees is required to cure the silicone. One piece casting is the only way to go but takes practice and experience.
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Beth B
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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by Beth B » Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:39 am

Sil-Poxy silicone adhesive from Smooth-On.....

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MikeTheEngineer
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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by MikeTheEngineer » Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:50 am

Tracy Lorraine wrote:Brooke is correct. Most reputable molders/casters are pouring full body silicone dolls in one piece. It's a very difficult job with a lot of equipment required to produce quality dolls.
So, they destroy the mold to get the doll out?

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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by MikeTheEngineer » Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:50 am

Beth B wrote:Sil-Poxy silicone adhesive from Smooth-On.....

Thanks.

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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by MikeTheEngineer » Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:51 am

Melissas Babies wrote:Most silicones that are used with Doll making today have a set time of approx 30 minits. Faster cure can be achieved with heat. 72 to 75 degrees is required to cure the silicone. One piece casting is the only way to go but takes practice and experience.
I thought everyone used Ecoflex 20 and 30, which have cure times of 4 hours. What else would they use?

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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by Melissas Babies » Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:05 am

if you read the containters working time is 30 minits set time, cure time is 4 hours. I only have ever used the same silicone to attach heads or limbs. you achieve the best attachment. 18 years of experimenting and Doll making with Silicone. There is Dragon skin too Love the stuff!!
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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by Denise O » Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:59 am

Pieced together dolls are not what the collectibles industry seeks these days. No we get multiple casts from our mold without destroying the mold. It can and is done. When my company started we talked about creating molds the way you are... but it didn't come to fruition because of inability to create a one piece mold because of size and cost of equipment so we went about it the old fashioned way.

MikeTheEngineer wrote:
Tracy Lorraine wrote:Brooke is correct. Most reputable molders/casters are pouring full body silicone dolls in one piece. It's a very difficult job with a lot of equipment required to produce quality dolls.
So, they destroy the mold to get the doll out?

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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by MikeTheEngineer » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:36 am

Denise O wrote:Pieced together dolls are not what the collectibles industry seeks these days. No we get multiple casts from our mold without destroying the mold. It can and is done. When my company started we talked about creating molds the way you are... but it didn't come to fruition because of inability to create a one piece mold because of size and cost of equipment so we went about it the old fashioned way.

MikeTheEngineer wrote:
Tracy Lorraine wrote:Brooke is correct. Most reputable molders/casters are pouring full body silicone dolls in one piece. It's a very difficult job with a lot of equipment required to produce quality dolls.
So, they destroy the mold to get the doll out?
I'm assuming you're using a two piece mold? (When you say "single mold" I think one piece, which would *require* destruction to get the cast out.)

And ya... the *size* of the molds is the killer for making a single two piece mold.

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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by MikeTheEngineer » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:57 am

Melissas Babies wrote:if you read the containters working time is 30 minits set time, cure time is 4 hours. I only have ever used the same silicone to attach heads or limbs. you achieve the best attachment. 18 years of experimenting and Doll making with Silicone. There is Dragon skin too Love the stuff!!
Do you just hold one limb in place at a time? Attach one limb, wait for it to cure, then do the next? Or do you use some method to keep them perfectly lined up while applying all at once?

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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by Denise O » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:07 pm

We do NOT use a 2 piece mold. We have developed a one piece mold over the years we have been casting and cast our doll bodies in one piece. Its really the most used method in the doll world. Two piece molds are usually a beginning point with casters. They quickly find seaming to be very time consuming and difficult and move to a one piece method.
MikeTheEngineer wrote:
Denise O wrote:Pieced together dolls are not what the collectibles industry seeks these days. No we get multiple casts from our mold without destroying the mold. It can and is done. When my company started we talked about creating molds the way you are... but it didn't come to fruition because of inability to create a one piece mold because of size and cost of equipment so we went about it the old fashioned way.

MikeTheEngineer wrote:
Tracy Lorraine wrote:Brooke is correct. Most reputable molders/casters are pouring full body silicone dolls in one piece. It's a very difficult job with a lot of equipment required to produce quality dolls.
So, they destroy the mold to get the doll out?
I'm assuming you're using a two piece mold? (When you say "single mold" I think one piece, which would *require* destruction to get the cast out.)

And ya... the *size* of the molds is the killer for making a single two piece mold.

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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by Denise O » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:12 pm

This doll is one my company mold and cast for artist Laura Tuzio Ross. You can see it was poured in one piece and multiple babies have been cast out of the mold.

http://www.doll-fan.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=376030

I saw you are in Florida... we are in Florida also. I also didn't get a chance to welcome you to doll fan. Welcome! I look forward to seeing your work.

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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by MikeTheEngineer » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:21 pm

Denise O wrote:We do NOT use a 2 piece mold. We have developed a one piece mold over the years we have been casting and cast our doll bodies in one piece. Its really the most used method in the doll world. Two piece molds are usually a beginning point with casters. They quickly find seaming to be very time consuming and difficult and move to a one piece method.
MikeTheEngineer wrote:
Denise O wrote:Pieced together dolls are not what the collectibles industry seeks these days. No we get multiple casts from our mold without destroying the mold. It can and is done. When my company started we talked about creating molds the way you are... but it didn't come to fruition because of inability to create a one piece mold because of size and cost of equipment so we went about it the old fashioned way.

MikeTheEngineer wrote:
So, they destroy the mold to get the doll out?
I'm assuming you're using a two piece mold? (When you say "single mold" I think one piece, which would *require* destruction to get the cast out.)

And ya... the *size* of the molds is the killer for making a single two piece mold.
Something's got to give. You can't pour an entire doll into a small hole in a single part mold, then pull it out through that hole without destroying the mold. Either the mold itself is in two parts, or the mold is destroyed... or you're using magic. It's not like giving birth... the "entry hole" doesn't expand on a mold. ;) I'm not talking about attaching limbs, I'm talking about the *mold* being in two pieces. If you're using magic, please share. ^_^ :headspin:

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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by MikeTheEngineer » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:23 pm

Denise O wrote:This doll is one my company mold and cast for artist Laura Tuzio Ross. You can see it was poured in one piece and multiple babies have been cast out of the mold.

http://www.doll-fan.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=376030

I saw you are in Florida... we are in Florida also. I also didn't get a chance to welcome you to doll fan. Welcome! I look forward to seeing your work.
I'm near Tampa, You? Can you post a pic of your magic reusable single piece molds? ^_^

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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by Dan_O » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:01 pm

Mike,

You have to be more creative ... and think outside the box (or traditional molding in this case) ... no one ever said that 5 pounds of solid silicone will come out a small 2 inch pour spout.

If you have done basic box molding ... in a single part pour of the mold and you kept the under cuts to a minimum ... you should know that you can carefully cut the mold open get the original out ... place the mold back in the box it was poured in and then pour a cast of what was molded ... but you now have a "seam" and you must remove that seam somehow. In materials like Resin it is very easy to remove that seam and make it look like there never was one there. In silicone it is a learned skill that if not done correctly will not disappear or worse yet will de-laminate.

So in the collectible doll world it is very important to have as little seam as possible to ensure the highest quality cast. Everything in your molding process should be focused around keeping seams minimized (the goal should be to have at most 1 seam on a complete full body doll. There are those that choose "no seam" and those that choose 1 seam, we find that we prefer the 1 seam method. No I'm not just making this up, there are at least 10 molders in the doll industry that choose to create molds in a way that only one seam or no seam is there in the cast.

Because creating a mold as stated above is such a tough thing to work your way through understanding then just as tough to actually implement ... then after proof of concept to actually hone it to a point of being able to replicate it doll after doll, you will not find anyone willing to just give you answers. You will however find many people that will help you as you struggle along and prove you are committed and have actually tried things and are having a hard time perfecting that particular step. Unfortunately you are most likely not going to find many people outside the doll world that make molds the way the doll world does. We have had the privileged of talking to many people that have been in the molding industry for years outside the doll world, and for us (D3 Creation) we have yet to find a single person that truly molds the way we do (even in the doll world). However we mold and cast for others so we add a step into our process (creating a resin master cast) that I do not believe anyone else in the doll world does.

So no it is not "Magic" we do it and there are at least 2 other molder/casters in Florida that also do it. One chooses the "no seam" method and I believe the other chooses the single seam method like us. All three of us actually make our molds slightly different and pour our cast differently, but rest assured we all have at the VERY most 1 small seam.

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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by MikeTheEngineer » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:25 pm

Dan_O wrote:Mike,

You have to be more creative ... and think outside the box (or traditional molding in this case) ... no one ever said that 5 pounds of solid silicone will come out a small 2 inch pour spout.

If you have done basic box molding ... in a single part pour of the mold and you kept the under cuts to a minimum ... you should know that you can carefully cut the mold open get the original out ... place the mold back in the box it was poured in and then pour a cast of what was molded ... but you now have a "seam" and you must remove that seam somehow. In materials like Resin it is very easy to remove that seam and make it look like there never was one there. In silicone it is a learned skill that if not done correctly will not disappear or worse yet will de-laminate.

So in the collectible doll world it is very important to have as little seam as possible to ensure the highest quality cast. Everything in your molding process should be focused around keeping seams minimized (the goal should be to have at most 1 seam on a complete full body doll. There are those that choose "no seam" and those that choose 1 seam, we find that we prefer the 1 seam method. No I'm not just making this up, there are at least 10 molders in the doll industry that choose to create molds in a way that only one seam or no seam is there in the cast.

Because creating a mold as stated above is such a tough thing to work your way through understanding then just as tough to actually implement ... then after proof of concept to actually hone it to a point of being able to replicate it doll after doll, you will not find anyone willing to just give you answers. You will however find many people that will help you as you struggle along and prove you are committed and have actually tried things and are having a hard time perfecting that particular step. Unfortunately you are most likely not going to find many people outside the doll world that make molds the way the doll world does. We have had the privileged of talking to many people that have been in the molding industry for years outside the doll world, and for us (D3 Creation) we have yet to find a single person that truly molds the way we do (even in the doll world). However we mold and cast for others so we add a step into our process (creating a resin master cast) that I do not believe anyone else in the doll world does.

So no it is not "Magic" we do it and there are at least 2 other molder/casters in Florida that also do it. One chooses the "no seam" method and I believe the other chooses the single seam method like us. All three of us actually make our molds slightly different and pour our cast differently, but rest assured we all have at the VERY most 1 small seam.
"If you have done basic box molding " I haven't. This is my *very* first attempt at any part of this process. I have no interest in the 'traditional' molding, as the entire point of me doing this is to create a *new* way that's as good, faster and cheaper. ^_^

If you're "cutting" it, I'm assuming your mold is made out of silicone, and by 'cutting' it It's no long one solid piece, and isn't a permanent mold. Is this correct?
I do have several ideas of how to prevent seams with my multi-part molds, though I'm unsure how well they will work until I try them out. ^_^

If I can make enough to pay for raw materials, until I get better at it, I'll be quite content.

It sounds like you're slightly irritated in your response. I meant no offense, and wasn't asking you for details of your molding process. If your molds are made of silicone, that explains everything. If it's a hard mold, then it just sounds like we are failing to communicate. You said the molds were destroyed, but if they have limited uses... then after those uses, the mold is destroyed. That's what I was talking about.

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Re: Silicone Limb attachment

Post by Melissas Babies » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:30 pm

and some of Us can pull a baby out of a very small Hole!!! :lol:
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