Very serious problem in the reborn world

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Shannon
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

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Steve wrote:I don't want to complicate things but am curious if per this thread, http://www.doll-fan.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=374974 , if the trademark holder is asking for ebay to take down auctions which do not infringe or use the mark of "reborn baby doll" if that helps. Should those who have been effected by erroneous take-downs be keeping track? Seems to me there is some potential abuse going on.
I use the terms "Reborn Baby" (I don't use the word "doll")in my title and the word "Reborn" is within my template. I can't seem to figure out how to get the "reborn" out of my template. I'm working under the HTML to try and find the correct insert, but I think I will lose my whole framing for the template. :evil: I will relist with different wording in my title by changing the words to Reborned/Rebirthed. Hope this will keep them off my butt.
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by Brooke »

She's shooting herself in the foot. There will be absolutely no reborn artist or person who will want to have anything to do with her. Nobody to buy her dolls or anything else. No trades or friends. What a selfish d - - m loon.
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by Pebby »

This sounds as thou ebay does not make the decision.

A participant in the VeRO Program might have requested that your listing be removed, but didn't request that others be removed. These decisions are made by VeRO participants and not by eBay. For more information about why a VeRO participant asked to have your listing removed, contact the VeRO participant using the email address that was included in the email we sent you.
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by Pebby »

TamaraLynn wrote:
Pebby wrote:I couldn't read it either, the page didnt come up.

Pebby, look here

https://www.facebook.com/debra.jadick



the other page is set for friends only to view.. this one is public
Thank you Tamara............. this is really crazy. I guess Liars always get their way, at least for a while.
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Shannon
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by Shannon »

Pebby wrote:This sounds as thou ebay does not make the decision.

A participant in the VeRO Program might have requested that your listing be removed, but didn't request that others be removed. These decisions are made by VeRO participants and not by eBay. For more information about why a VeRO participant asked to have your listing removed, contact the VeRO participant using the email address that was included in the email we sent you.
Yes, that is my understanding. I guess they don't want to take a chance on getting sued.
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by lastingmemoriesnursery_Debra »

Shannon wrote:Do we still need legal representation if the petition signatures are obtained to overturn the trademark?
HOnestly, the petition is a way for people to vent. I do not think it will be used in the case unless it goes to court. We are trying to prevent it going to court because attorneys especially DC attorneys are expensive lol $300.00 an hour to be exact! I have a phone conference with the law firm tomorrow to get the retainer all set up and ask some questions like. Can we use any of the words or are we just not allowed to use the words as they were trademarked meaning we can not use Reborn Baby Doll but can we use Reborn Baby or Reborn Doll etc.
I will also ask about the petition
The petition in itself the trademark office wont even look at unless it is filed with the appeal Which I went through the entire process this morning and they do allow you to attach files and you do have to write why you are appealing etc. So perhaps we can add it there?
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by lastingmemoriesnursery_Debra »

Steve wrote:I don't want to complicate things but am curious if per this thread, http://www.doll-fan.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=374974 , if the trademark holder is asking for ebay to take down auctions which do not infringe or use the mark of "reborn baby doll" if that helps. Should those who have been effected by erroneous take-downs be keeping track? Seems to me there is some potential abuse going on.
Steve the problem lies in a computer! VERO is the program that is used and it simply scans for the words Reborn, Baby and Doll it is a hit or miss thing where some have had all their auctions removed and others have not had any removed. I will be asking for more clarification from the attorney on what we can currently use until the appeal is in motion.
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by Steve »

lastingmemoriesnursery_Debra wrote:
Steve wrote:I don't want to complicate things but am curious if per this thread, http://www.doll-fan.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=374974 , if the trademark holder is asking for ebay to take down auctions which do not infringe or use the mark of "reborn baby doll" if that helps. Should those who have been effected by erroneous take-downs be keeping track? Seems to me there is some potential abuse going on.
Steve the problem lies in a computer! VERO is the program that is used and it simply scans for the words Reborn, Baby and Doll it is a hit or miss thing where some have had all their auctions removed and others have not had any removed. I will be asking for more clarification from the attorney on what we can currently use until the appeal is in motion.

Well, my thought is that if eBay uses VERO and VERO is simply using an algorithm that basic and pulls listings without any other interaction(I find this part kind of hard to believe but could be I guess) then the problem is eBay :) I haven't used eBay for years but is what I've seen posted true?....that if you have a few of your listings pulled for copyright infringement it negatively impacts you?
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by Ginny W »

Steve wrote:
lastingmemoriesnursery_Debra wrote:
Steve wrote:I don't want to complicate things but am curious if per this thread, http://www.doll-fan.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=374974 , if the trademark holder is asking for ebay to take down auctions which do not infringe or use the mark of "reborn baby doll" if that helps. Should those who have been effected by erroneous take-downs be keeping track? Seems to me there is some potential abuse going on.
Steve the problem lies in a computer! VERO is the program that is used and it simply scans for the words Reborn, Baby and Doll it is a hit or miss thing where some have had all their auctions removed and others have not had any removed. I will be asking for more clarification from the attorney on what we can currently use until the appeal is in motion.

Well, my thought is that if eBay uses VERO and VERO is simply using an algorithm that basic and pulls listings without any other interaction(I find this part kind of hard to believe but could be I guess) then the problem is eBay :) I haven't used eBay for years but is what I've seen posted true?....that if you have a few of your listings pulled for copyright infringement it negatively impacts you?

Not sure exactly how all this works but I do know if you look on their rules pages if you are told not to list using certain terms or copyrighted terms, they will remove your membership after so many marks against you after you have been warned. But I also know that they will remove you even after just one infraction depending on what you did.
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by Helen_C »

HunnyBunMama*Steph wrote:Steve, we need to have those posts, so thank you. I don't get in here as often as I would like. I will use screenshots of each of those posts to give to the attorney. It does bolster our case. Especially since this individual claims now that her motives were simply altruistic and she was trying to put all the Chinese kit counterfeiters out of business on eBay. Perhaps this has just been the Law of Unintended Consequences at work.
If she says her intentions were to remove the counterfeit Chines Kits, why then is she reporting ALL auctions that involve reborn dolls.

She only needs to report the chinese auctions.
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by chelle77 »

Helen_C wrote:
HunnyBunMama*Steph wrote:Steve, we need to have those posts, so thank you. I don't get in here as often as I would like. I will use screenshots of each of those posts to give to the attorney. It does bolster our case. Especially since this individual claims now that her motives were simply altruistic and she was trying to put all the Chinese kit counterfeiters out of business on eBay. Perhaps this has just been the Law of Unintended Consequences at work.
If she says her intentions were to remove the counterfeit Chines Kits, why then is she reporting ALL auctions that involve reborn dolls.

She only needs to report the chinese auctions.
Exactly
Which proves that was never her intention in the first place
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by lastingmemoriesnursery_Debra »

Steve wrote:
lastingmemoriesnursery_Debra wrote:
Steve wrote:I don't want to complicate things but am curious if per this thread, http://www.doll-fan.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=374974 , if the trademark holder is asking for ebay to take down auctions which do not infringe or use the mark of "reborn baby doll" if that helps. Should those who have been effected by erroneous take-downs be keeping track? Seems to me there is some potential abuse going on.
Steve the problem lies in a computer! VERO is the program that is used and it simply scans for the words Reborn, Baby and Doll it is a hit or miss thing where some have had all their auctions removed and others have not had any removed. I will be asking for more clarification from the attorney on what we can currently use until the appeal is in motion.

Well, my thought is that if eBay uses VERO and VERO is simply using an algorithm that basic and pulls listings without any other interaction(I find this part kind of hard to believe but could be I guess) then the problem is eBay :) I haven't used eBay for years but is what I've seen posted true?....that if you have a few of your listings pulled for copyright infringement it negatively impacts you?
I honestly do not use ebay so this is my understanding but then again talking to ebay is like talking to the phone company or the cable company you are loosing years of your life and it all depends on who you get on the phone to what the true answer is. From what I understand it is algorithms that are being used with the key phrase Reborn Baby Doll. Unfortunately, auctions have been pulled with different titles as well girl reborn baby, Reborn Girl baby doll Reborn baby girl etc. So even taking one word out or adding additional words doesnt seem to be helping.
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by lastingmemoriesnursery_Debra »

Helen_C wrote:
HunnyBunMama*Steph wrote:Steve, we need to have those posts, so thank you. I don't get in here as often as I would like. I will use screenshots of each of those posts to give to the attorney. It does bolster our case. Especially since this individual claims now that her motives were simply altruistic and she was trying to put all the Chinese kit counterfeiters out of business on eBay. Perhaps this has just been the Law of Unintended Consequences at work.
If she says her intentions were to remove the counterfeit Chines Kits, why then is she reporting ALL auctions that involve reborn dolls.

She only needs to report the chinese auctions.
Because
A.) that was not her true intentions
B.) her trademark only pertains to the USA
She also claimed she wanted to set up a community of trusted Reborn artists to work under the trademark . All I know is I quit working for anybody except myself 3 years ago to take my business full time. I am not going to work for her lol
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by Shannon »

If reading this info correctly, it is NOT a program that removes the listings. The rights owner must report it.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/que ... -item.html
http://pages.ebay.com/vero/infoforusers.html
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by Helen_C »

Shannon wrote:If reading this info correctly, it is NOT a program that removes the listings. The rights owner must report it.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/que ... -item.html
http://pages.ebay.com/vero/infoforusers.html
That's the way I understood it too.
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by CarlaKH »

How bizarre! I wish personally we would stop using the word REBORN for dolls. I think the name is not really appropriate... they aren't born and certainly not re-born. The term has too many religious connotations and really does not reflect the artistry that goes into the dolls. Dolls are not born - they are created or made. They aren't brought to life, they are inanimate objects that people enjoy collecting and "playing" with. I love my dolls but tend to use the term custom doll when discussing them or showing them to people other than dollfan.
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by Pebby »

I think I may start using "Art doll" Some do that.
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by Suzanne »

CarlaKH wrote:How bizarre! I wish personally we would stop using the word REBORN for dolls. I think the name is not really appropriate... they aren't born and certainly not re-born. The term has too many religious connotations and really does not reflect the artistry that goes into the dolls. Dolls are not born - they are created or made. They aren't brought to life, they are inanimate objects that people enjoy collecting and "playing" with. I love my dolls but tend to use the term custom doll when discussing them or showing them to people other than dollfan.
it really dosent matter what we want to start calling them.. they are known as reborns and will continue to be known as reborns. I don't like the word "lotion" and I could start just calling it body cream but it will always be called lotion... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I was telling my husband about this.. he thinks there is no way she could sue someone for using reborn as it would be thrown out in court because its a term that has been used to describe something for a decade and doesn't belong to her. He say the trademark lawyer she used just took her money and gave her a worthless piece of paper. He has a point but I understand going through the correct channels to get this resolved as it is affecting sellers on ebay regardless..
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by dollyknits max »

My heart goes out to everyone in our community and I’ve signed the petition and donated funds Thank you for the hard work in supporting and protecting our community – I don’t reborn, but I have collected and do knit for them.

Can I just ask she has trademarked the words reborn baby doll – does that mean no one can use any of these words in a description, such as baby doll, reborn doll, doll clothing?
If so why haven’t the bigger companies – Jctoys, Zapf , etc. been on her back, as they advertise their dolls as baby born doll/baby doll, etc and also sell doll clothing, also the toy shops this will affect selling baby dolls and doll clothing or baby clothing.
Also baby doll negligee sets :)
If this is the case it affects a much wider audience.
She will certainly have her work cut out trawling the internet/shops and reporting items her trademark covers. Also she shouldn’t just be picking on a few on ebay/etsy – if genuine she needs to spend hours per day reporting auctions and won’t have time to make her reborn baby doll toys.
If she has trademarked them as a toy, hope she has all the relevant paperwork to show they are tested as safe for children and doesn’t sell them on ebay under collectables/reborn, etc, but only under toys. I would hate for her to be sued if a set of eyelashes/hair comes off and a parent sues her, as their child injured them self eating/swallowing the items.
Also what doll is she using to make her toys – advertised reborn baby doll kits and supplies for reborn baby dolls

hugs max xxx
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Re: Very serious problem in the reborn world

Post by JudyP »

lastingmemoriesnursery_Debra wrote:
Shannon wrote:Do we still need legal representation if the petition signatures are obtained to overturn the trademark?
HOnestly, the petition is a way for people to vent. I do not think it will be used in the case unless it goes to court. We are trying to prevent it going to court because attorneys especially DC attorneys are expensive lol $300.00 an hour to be exact! I have a phone conference with the law firm tomorrow to get the retainer all set up and ask some questions like. Can we use any of the words or are we just not allowed to use the words as they were trademarked meaning we can not use Reborn Baby Doll but can we use Reborn Baby or Reborn Doll etc.
I will also ask about the petition
The petition in itself the trademark office wont even look at unless it is filed with the appeal Which I went through the entire process this morning and they do allow you to attach files and you do have to write why you are appealing etc. So perhaps we can add it there?
I agree, it would definitely be nice in the mean time for us to know what words we can use to list so that we don't take a chance of getting our auctions cancelled. :(
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Judy
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